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 Post subject: TT2 replica - smoothing the rough bits
PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2014 8:43 am 
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Hi all, I have recently bought my way into the TT2 owners club by acquiring a bike that another chap put together here in Australia. It was built and registered for the street, and is a fairly standard-looking TT2 replica with the red Verlicchi frame, all the usual fairing/tank bits from Two Wheel Classics in the UK, and an engine, 35 mm Marzocchis, Brembo 05s and wheels from a 600SL. It is reasonably tidy, but some aspects of the build seem rushed and the engine has turned out to be a bit of a dog (someone did a lot of home maintenance armed only with a big hammer and a big screwdriver). I am keen for some advice on a few things.

The engine will not go into neutral when the engine is running and the bike stationary (it will when the engine is turned off), so I am guessing the clutch basket has some serious notches. Is it worth finding a replacement basket or is it adequate to file those notches out? Am I likely to find other related problems if I take off the clutch cover?

The rear monoshock looks to be a Showa from a later model Supersport and the rear suspension seems quite hard. Is there a rear shock that might be better, or is it simpler to get a lighter spring?

The area under the screen is pretty messy and crowded. I have replaced the left switchblock with the typical Yamaha unit because I like the feel of the indicator control (I have this on my 500SL). The brake lever is positioned a bit towards the end of the clip on (making it difficult for the bar end mirror expansion fastener to bite inside the tube) and the brake reservoir and lines are bulky and knock against the standard Pantah 600 dashboard block. There is very little room for the Pantah gauges (nice and new) and ignition block and brakelines, so I have been considering replacing the Pantah stuff. For example, would someone have a recommendation for other levers and smaller reservoirs that can be mounted elsewhere, and less bulky brakeline connection options. I might like to keep the Denso gauges as they look new, but if I could find a smaller unit for the ignition barrel and indicator LEDs (just the bare basics like high beam and indicators to make it legal). I think I saw 916 clutch/brake levers on the Loudbike Yellow Bike III?... There is a twin cable throttle, but it might be nice to have something slimmer that will give smooth throttle control.

The rear brake reservoir is on an angle so that it cannot be filled easily. Presumably from the 600SL. Would there be a good replacement with a remote reservoir?

Accessing the exhaust valve on the rear cylinder for clearance checking involved dropping the engine, since the frame prevents the pin being drawn. I was suggested to put Paso rockers throughout.

The sidestand is mounted on the right and is made from Lego, painted silver. I saw someone once put a sidestand from a postie bike, which was already painted red. Anyone ever done that?

Well thats probably enough, I would be grateful for thoughts and recommendations on anything really.


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 Post subject: Re: TT2 replica - smoothing the rough bits
PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 6:45 am 
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You came to the right forum, the TT and F1 knowledge base on here is pretty impressive and you get to talk to Mr Loudbikes directly ;) .

You didn't mention which engine and clutch, but normally wet Pantah clutches are not too bad, it sounds like it is not completely disengaging, the basket might be, should be ok, I would not file it as the plates will hammer a tooth off finally and then it is $$$ time. if it is hydraulic clutch look at the bearings in the actuator and it it is wire clutch check the ramp on the actuator and change the cable to new nice lubed up one.

I would not throw good money after bad with the budget Showa shock, just find convenient second hand Ohlins and change the spring in that. Get one with ride height adjustor and 5mm longer than Showa, it will give you a better shock length as well.


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 Post subject: Re: TT2 replica - smoothing the rough bits
PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 7:02 am 
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Joined: Sun Aug 17, 2014 10:46 am
Posts: 7
Thanks MarcFX. There are some great posts and pics in this forum.

Perhaps I will look for an Ohlins then. I have already adjusted the Showa as much as it can be but still the bike wants to throw me off when I go over a bump. I am not an expert, so just a point in the right direction is sometimes enough to get me started on these sorts of things.

Thanks for your advice re the clutch filing. It is a 1983 600SL motor with the cable actuated wet clutch. Definitely feels like not disengaging, so I can only think that the basket needs replacing. Any advice on how to lube up a clutch cable? Just roll it up and dunk it under some oil for a few days?

Cheers. ptenax


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 Post subject: Re: TT2 replica - smoothing the rough bits
PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 8:07 am 
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Joined: Sun Jan 09, 2011 1:26 am
Posts: 175
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Location: Melbourne, Australia
Hi Ptenax,
Welcome to this great forum!
Whereabouts are you based? Can you post some pictures of your machine?
Is your clutch the big basket version? It's the basket that is almost slicing off the oil filler screw cap size. Perhaps your friction plates are worn down? They are not the strongest clutches.
To lubricate the clutch cable.... Get some bluetak and mold a cup sealed up against the outer sheath and fill the "cup" with oil. Let it drain in between the wire strands and sheath.
Hang it vertically to let it drain. Not too much oil.....
Show us the cockpit area of what you mean by levers?
You may need to spend some cash for a remote reservoir rear m/c...... Speak to Carlo.
TT2 frames are not service friendly. Replace the rockers with later type clip versions so you don't have to pull the pins out to re shim the valves.
Take some snaps and enjoy the work.
Cheers,
Steve

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"...Honey, it's only a project bike...."


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 Post subject: Re: TT2 replica - smoothing the rough bits
PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 12:05 pm 
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Hi Steve, thanks for making me feel welcome. I am in Adelaide. Your 600 looks lovely and shiny, I must get out and clean my poor little 500SL...

Did a bit more reading on the clutch in Ian Fallon's book. The engine number (after 701650) puts it in the 1983 cohort that received the cable-operated clutch with larger diameter drum made of steel (not aluminium) and 15 clutch plates. I was not sure what you meant in your post when you said "...It's the basket that is almost slicing off the oil filler screw cap size. " Anyway, it looks like I need to get that side cover off and see what the damage is.

Thanks for the tip on lubing the cable, it sounds simple enough.

Re brakes and reservoirs, all the rear brake units from Pantah, F1 and Paso families look to have the attached reservoir on an angle relative to the main body of the unit (dunno what you call that bit). The TT2 Harris frame had a connection strut that took this angle into account, but not the 1982/83 Verlicchi, which used a remote reservoir anyway I think (just looking in the Falloon book). It looks like the unit on the ST2 will be better, and the Supersports also have a small remote reservoir. Maybe I should be looking for one of these from a wreckers. For the front brakes, I think RGVs had a system where you could put a remote reservoir on it. I have seen a TT2 that has upside-down forks and front brakes from an RGV.

I will take some pics of the front instruments and post soon.

Cheers, ptenax


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 Post subject: Re: TT2 replica - smoothing the rough bits
PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 8:20 am 
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Joined: Sun Jan 09, 2011 1:26 am
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Location: Melbourne, Australia
:? Hi Ptenax,
I love Adelaide! The hills, the roads, all the best roads within 15 mins of the city, the wineries....
Enough about drinking, the bigger steel basket is so very close to the plastic oil filler cap that there aren't many threads remaining on the screw cap. It's nigh impossible to re-fill the oil with a decent flow since the basket doesn't allow a funnel to sit in the hole.
Maybe, I'll show you a photo......
If you have this basket, I can advise a replacement clutch pack brand and part number!
It may be wise to renew the clutch cover gasket too.
Yeah, the standard master cylinders have the reservoir fitted on an odd angle for a stock setup. You do need a Carlo master cylinder....
Anyway, keep up the good work. Take some shots of the bike. Thanks for your kind words about the standard Pantah. I should add some updated photos with the super quiet Contis.
Cheers,
Steve

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"...Honey, it's only a project bike...."


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 Post subject: Re: TT2 replica - smoothing the rough bits
PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 7:33 pm 
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ptenax wrote:
Hi Steve, thanks for making me feel welcome. I am in Adelaide. Your 600 looks lovely and shiny, I must get out and clean my poor little 500SL...

Did a bit more reading on the clutch in Ian Fallon's book. The engine number (after 701650) puts it in the 1983 cohort that received the cable-operated clutch with larger diameter drum made of steel (not aluminium) and 15 clutch plates.

Cheers, ptenax


The clutch you have is considered the 'best one' more friction area and cable actuation gives less issues than hydraulic. So you are in front for a start. There should not be too much to stop the clutch from releasing, new cable is good start, also check it is correctly routed without any kinks in it. The check the wear on the actuator arm when you have the cover off.


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 Post subject: Re: TT2 replica - smoothing the rough bits
PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2014 7:27 am 
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Joined: Sat Mar 29, 2014 11:07 pm
Posts: 13
Location: Sunshine Coast, QLD, Australia
Hi Ptenax

I'm absolutely no expert and literally fumbling round in the dark myself so please take anything I say under advisement.. :-) But i'm in the middle of building a Verlicchi replica TT2 racer and have come across a couple of the issues you are referring to.

As far as rear mc goes I discovered that the pantah unit doesn't fit for several reasons. It has that attached reservoir that you mention when the TT2 ran a remote. There are plenty of late model mc's that have a remote reservoir however the mounting holes have a different spacing. Having heard suggestions of talking to Carlo I will do that, but in the interim I have used a brand new one I bought off ebay for some generic brand of pit bike as it had the correctly spaced mounting holes. I haven't ridden it yet but so far it works fine..

I also had to dwell on the shock issue and settled on a Wilbers as I just couldn't justify the money for the Ohlins. I bought it from Steve at Suspension Improvements in Brisbane and they retail for a bit over $1000 which is a fair bit cheaper than the Ohlins and you can spec it with whatever spring you like depending on your riding style and weight.

I hope this helps a little but please remember i'm no expert. If you want any more information then please let me know.

Cheers

David


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 Post subject: Re: TT2 replica - smoothing the rough bits
PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2014 1:52 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 17, 2014 10:46 am
Posts: 7
Hi chaps,

Thanks for your posts the last few days. I have been delayed in responding to your advice because of work distractions and associated demands - ho hum.

I have attached some pictures of the bike. Like I mentioned, the kudos goes to another enthusiast for the construction, though there are still a few things that can be done. The close ups show the busy-ness under the screen. The builder spent a bit of thoughtful time in there getting things to fit and function adequately, but I would like to make it a bit more spacious (to increase airflow...) and elegant. Looking around online has given me a few ideas, when you can actually see the details in photos. My primary ultimate main goal is to reorganise so the handlebar movement is not controlled by the clutch cable attachment or the brake lines bashing into the dashboard.

Steve, if you had the clutch part number in easy reach, I would be glad to know, otherwise I will see what I can find on the internet. I briefly checked Carlo's website for a listing for his rear master cylinder but could not see it. I have only just begun reading through this forum, so I might spot more details as I have a relaxed browse. If it is a bit 'spensive, I might have to put it at a lower priority as the existing rear still functions fine.

David, the Pantah rear master cylinder unit does seem to fit, but with bits poking out - you can see on my photos. Thanks for posting the pics of your bike and the rear suspension, there are certainly a lot of rear shocks out there. I like your shed too. Are you building for the road or track? I will be interested to know how you will put the handlebars and dashboard together on your little beauty. What is the donor bike/engine?

MarkFX, I will check the actuator arm wear for sure. The clutch cable has been rerouted (much nicer now), and I checked the freeplay in the lever. Problem remaining, Mm, it might not be a simple, no-gasket, no-cash fix.

I got some other advice that the RGV front end was not brilliant on the TT2, and that an R1 brake set up (with remote reservoir and radial master cylinder) might be good and cheaper than Brembo.

This bike was quite difficult to tune and balance, as the exhaust made it very quiet and difficult to hear each cylinder. I found a little bolt inside the end of the exhaust, and was able to remove it and a very restrictive baffle, which I have now placed far away from the machine. The exhaust note has now changed from one of flatulance to a nice deep note.

Lots of admiration for you guys that are building from the ground up, it is great to see your pictures, and thanks for your helpful thoughts.

Cheers, ptenax

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 Post subject: Re: TT2 replica - smoothing the rough bits
PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2014 3:19 pm 
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Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2011 3:38 pm
Posts: 787
I see what you mean about the area under the screen!
No doubt with some thought and the internet you will find a solution!
No need to worry about a gasket on the clutch cover,
find some Ducati bond, clean the surfaces and voila no leaks.
I have been using it on case halves and all gasket surfaces for quite some time, with no issues.
Great looking bike!!
Paul


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