|
View unanswered posts | View active topics
| Author |
Message |
|
Carlo
|
Post subject: Re: NEW BIKE AGONISTIC SEASON 2013. MORETTI # 5 Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 7:29 am |
|
Joined: Thu Oct 28, 2010 4:44 am Posts: 1898 Images: 7
|
|
Ciao Amici, I am glad that the link is to your liking, you learn Italian, but I will not learn, the English language!
Hello Bill, I understand your speech, and I think that's the logical thing and good, but you know that us bikers mechanics, we do not do the right thing and logic.
I now lighthouse duo and three throws in front of my house, but if I feel that I DO NOT want to hear which ones, I open again the engine block, I did not sleep last night, and if I do not solve the problem, I will not sleep more.
You think Bill, which I feel sorrow at the thought of doing the tests on the test bench!
I've never done the tests on test benches, and this thing is very unprofitable to make racing bikes.
I have always tried my bike on the race tracks, always trying to save the engine block, of course, always exploiting it to the maximum in the race, but never exploit it and making him scream for a test trial.
I know I'm weird and stupid, but I can see the gears turning inside the engine block, and I suffer for them!
I tried your bike, and I can assure you that Carlo Leoncini, drove with care and respecting the engine block as if the bike was my bike!
What can you do Bill, now I try and then I will say to you what I heard.
Why you do not come to the workshop at my house tonight, we give you a look together?
Call me when you're 20 minutes from my house, my wife, cooking spaghetti!
|
|
| Top |
|
 |
|
ducttf1
|
Post subject: Re: NEW BIKE AGONISTIC SEASON 2013. MORETTI # 5 Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 11:33 am |
|
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 8:03 pm Posts: 1429 Images: 0
|
|
Hi Carlo, I didn't sleep last night either. Maybe it was sympathetic? Your Moretti is beautiful, and the engine will come together soon enough. I know how you feel about putting a motor on a Dyno, sitting next to a motor screaming makes you feel the internal parts for sure. Good luck my friend, you really don't need it, you are a fine craftsman. Lou (Moretti #03)
|
|
| Top |
|
 |
|
618F1
|
Post subject: Re: NEW BIKE AGONISTIC SEASON 2013. MORETTI # 5 Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 11:50 am |
|
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2010 11:23 am Posts: 2093
|
|
Hello antomonster. I believe you have found one early NCR head. Is it the V or the H?
Carlo. I'll bet it is just fine on the road; they often feel odd sitting still, and the first time. MikeV
|
|
| Top |
|
 |
|
CrankyRoller
|
Post subject: Re: NEW BIKE AGONISTIC SEASON 2013. MORETTI # 5 Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 2:36 pm |
|
Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2010 9:21 am Posts: 312 Images: 0
|
|
Carlo What is the Preload on Main Bearing to crankshaft? -Cranky-
|
|
| Top |
|
 |
|
ducadini
|
Post subject: Re: NEW BIKE AGONISTIC SEASON 2013. MORETTI # 5 Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 4:30 pm |
|
Joined: Wed Sep 11, 2013 7:13 am Posts: 272
|
Carlo wrote: There ' a lot of confusion in the talk or look up information on the balancing of the crankshafts of the two-cylinder engine with 90 ° rods mounted on a single crank pin (Ducati , Guzzi , etc. . ) , Let's do some ' clarity :
The bikes that come out of the factory have (almost) always a good balance of the crankshaft , but often , due to processing or as a result of mechanical failure, you have to change the connecting rods with others, changing rods ( or lightened) change their weight ( in titanium) and as a result we will have to re- balance the crankshaft.
This article is not intended as an exhaustive paper on the balance ( I would not be able ) , with difficult calculations and heavy talk about the various harmonics , just wants to be a practical guide to what the normal enthusiast can do with the normal means in its budget or DIY .
I will use simple language so as not to create doubts.
The theory and ' fairly straightforward, the counterweight ( ax ) must balance shaft in opposition to the total weight of a connecting rod ( body + screw + rod bearing (the shells)) and a plunger ( piston + piston ring + pin + Seegers ) , plus the rotating part of the second connecting rod .
This is because at every turn of the crankshaft counterweight will twice in opposition to the piston ( a piston of the cylinder and a vertical to horizontal ) , giving 0 ° to the first , the second and ' to 90 ° , the remaining 270 ° are " empty" .
This total weight balance piston / connecting rod allows you to cancel the vibrations triggered by the reversal of motion at top dead center , and in the remaining intermediate points ?
They are generated very little vibration and balancing is done with auxiliary shafts , then (in our motor), the problem does not arise.
Of extreme importance is that the connecting rods and the pistons have exactly the same weight (at least to the tenth of a gram) , if they have a different weight then we have to lighten the heavier one to bring it to the weight of the one lightest
The connecting rods of the old Guzzi have a surplus at the ends of metal that serves this purpose ( Ducati those not, are more slender and light ) .
Another thing of great importance and ' the balance of the connecting rod, connecting rod feet ( and heads ) must have the same weight (eg 360 g heads , feet 90 g ) , we will discuss this later.
In order to balance the crankshaft we build on a lathe a metal ring to constrain ( with strong screws ) to the crank pin , this ring will have to be exactly the weight to balance with an accuracy of a tenth of a gram
CALCULATION OF THE WEIGHT OF BALANCE
To carry out the calculations that lead to weight balance must weigh a complete rod ( rod , bushings and screws) , weigh a plunger ( piston , piston pin, piston rings and snap rings ), find the weight of the rotating part of the second connecting rod ( usually about 60% of the total weight ) with a pretty simple system :
building a support in the form of [ the lower part acts as a base , the high ledge fits into the big end (which is' free to rotate ) , the other end of the connecting rod must settle the balance remaining parallel to the plane ( if the angle and ' very different rod and ' hanging or leaning against the distorting support the weight).
I remember that some electronic kitchen scales weigh 1/10 of a gram.
The displayed weight and ' the one with reciprocating rod , based on:
total weight rod -
weight displayed on the scale ( alternating ) =
part weight / rod that has rotary motion .
then :
weight 1 piston complete +
weight rod 1 full +
weight depending on the rotating rod =
weight to balance
Construction of the counterweight
Once you determine the weight to balance , you have to build a ring formed by two half-shells () and with through screws from the ends is bound to the pivot shaft in place of the connecting rods, and ' good practice to insert between the ring and the shaft two old bushings to avoid damaging the pin adjusted with involuntary rotations of the ring.
The bushings have a thickness to be taken into account in the construction (turning) of the ring.
I do a drawing taking into account the density of the metal (iron) and that of ' fact , I do it off the edge of the bearing journal , I take into account in the processing of bushings that must be inserted between the crankshaftpin and ring , I leave an excess of weight (about 30-50 grams), which I take to complete construction , the hole on the edge of the holes where the screws insert (_) that bind him to the crankshaft and cut it in half ( I) .
I put 8 mm bolts . taking into account ( during drilling ) which one end is threaded to lock the two half-shells on the pivot shaft . Turn the weight down to the desired value. May I add that I did this making two identical halves that screwed together, so the head and threaded parts of both bolts are opposed to eachother. A bit more work, but it excludes minor faults
Balancing "static"
Once the balancing ring build , the crankshaft is posed pose on the knives (blades perfectly straight and parallel to the floor or two pairs of rollers (bearings ) on which to build the tree ), the shaft will rotate to position the most heavy at the bottom, if this is' the ax of the tree , we remove weight until the crank will remain in any position we put ( cleaver in up-down - left-right ) .
It is advisable to remove material ALWAYS in the most distant from the center of rotation of the crank : at the outer edges.
If the bottom end is too light at the counterweight ( this happens very rarely ) we will have to add weight to the crank by welding up the old lightening holes .
Once you've done all this very carefully, bring the crankshaft to a workshop speciallized in dynamic balancing to check the work done ( better safe than sorry ) and it's cheap, in Portogruaro ( VE) they ask about 30 Euro .
The dynamic balancing is to balance the crank by rotating on a special machine (type wheel balancer ) , if the static balance and ' was done well, take off a few tenths of a gram.
I remember that a motor with rotating parts well balanced :
vibrates less , lasts longer , takes better revs , allows a more relaxed and does not generate resonances / breakages in the frame / plastics.
Carlo, I took the liberty of going over this article and changing some parts to make it more readable for the "linguistic challenged", knowing that italian isn't always a very easy language to translate. Included is a businesscard of someone i met decades ago, had a VERY pleasant tour around the factory with and explained everything I wanted to know about balancing crankshafts, just like in the article.
| Attachments: |

Taglioni-2.jpg [ 28.78 KiB | Viewed 1231 times ]
|

Taglioni-1.jpg [ 21.57 KiB | Viewed 1231 times ]
|
_________________ Nego i ricordi peggiori, richiamo i migliori pensieri
|
|
| Top |
|
 |
|
pat slinn
|
Post subject: Re: NEW BIKE AGONISTIC SEASON 2013. MORETTI # 5 Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:49 pm |
|
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2011 8:52 am Posts: 262 Images: 0
|
|
Ducadni, Yes, very good. I bought a pair of scales in 1981 from a market stall in Manchester, they cane with a box full of brass weights. However they were not for weighing con rod's and pistons and things, they were I imagine for weighing "organic" material !! I still have that set somewhere, perhaps one day I will calibrate it with a digital set. Love thge sketch, I have some like that from the hand of engineer Taglioni .
|
|
| Top |
|
 |
|
Carlo
|
Post subject: Re: NEW BIKE AGONISTIC SEASON 2013. MORETTI # 5 Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 6:01 pm |
|
Joined: Thu Oct 28, 2010 4:44 am Posts: 1898 Images: 7
|
CrankyRoller wrote: Carlo What is the Preload on Main Bearing to crankshaft? -Cranky- Ciao Cranky, 0,15mm, today I tried the bike on the road , with gear ratios quite long , and I must say that the bike is very good, you feel a bit of vibration , but it is almost imperceptible , perhaps by starting the bike on the bench in my workshop I have heard amplified this feeling and do . However, I have already spoken with a technical correction, I will do what I said . You do make this kind of control on the shop floor grinding ? I ask you: do you make your drive shafts in the workshop grinding ? I am happy with my result , the bike revs like lightning, though, even if marginally , I feel that vibration , my TT2 Sakamoto, has the original engine block entirely developed by the NCR workshops , by Grand Master Georgio Nepoti I can assure you that the bike is really fast, and the vibrations are non-existent. I tried once in the circuit, to pull his neck, that bike screams up to 11,000 which is frightening , but I swear before God that I would not have made more than a race with that bike , too precious for me . My TT2 I do turn on the track only when it is made an historic parade , then I make 2 or 3 times not to exceed 7000 rpm . The fact is that when you get on a TT2 , with the exhaust pipe completely open , my brain goes into TILT !
|
|
| Top |
|
 |
|
Carlo
|
Post subject: Re: NEW BIKE AGONISTIC SEASON 2013. MORETTI # 5 Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 6:11 pm |
|
Joined: Thu Oct 28, 2010 4:44 am Posts: 1898 Images: 7
|
ducttf1 wrote: Hi Carlo, I didn't sleep last night either. Maybe it was sympathetic? Your Moretti is beautiful, and the engine will come together soon enough. I know how you feel about putting a motor on a Dyno, sitting next to a motor screaming makes you feel the internal parts for sure. Good luck my friend, you really don't need it, you are a fine craftsman. Lou (Moretti #03) Thanks Lou, I always try to do everything, I is not that I want to save money, I want to learn, I would understand, my forsa is my character, not talent, I will open the engine block 10 times, and always with joy. I've been to many Italian championships in track and climb, I've always been alone, but not because I'm an antisocial, you know me, but only because I HAVE to do what my character requires me, and now requires me to remove the vibration. I have done a fair balance, I feel that it is bad for the engine at low revs, and at the same time increases with progression of turns and fast up to 10,000 rpm, so I will open the engine block, because I think that that vibration will be removed with the balancing DYNAMICS. I, I have to take off, this doubt.
|
|
| Top |
|
 |
|
Carlo
|
Post subject: Re: NEW BIKE AGONISTIC SEASON 2013. MORETTI # 5 Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 6:15 pm |
|
Joined: Thu Oct 28, 2010 4:44 am Posts: 1898 Images: 7
|
618F1 wrote: Hello antomonster. I believe you have found one early NCR head. Is it the V or the H?
Carlo. I'll bet it is just fine on the road; they often feel odd sitting still, and the first time. MikeV Hello MikeV my simultaneous translator, is an idiot, and I translated, words sensation sense. Please try again in a more easy. Sorry to be illiterate person Carlo Leoncini 
|
|
| Top |
|
 |
|
Carlo
|
Post subject: Re: NEW BIKE AGONISTIC SEASON 2013. MORETTI # 5 Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 6:18 pm |
|
Joined: Thu Oct 28, 2010 4:44 am Posts: 1898 Images: 7
|
|
Ciao Ducatini.....but it is the writing of the Engineer Taglioni? FORTE!!!
The scientific formula is written like that on the forum?
|
|
| Top |
|
 |
Who is online |
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest |
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot post attachments in this forum
|
|
|