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 Post subject: Re: DUCATI GPM
PostPosted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 7:11 am 
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 Post subject: Re: DUCATI GPM
PostPosted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 10:28 am 
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Location: Ottawa, Ontario, The Great White North
Carlo wrote:
Hello Lou, Ducati GPM, very little has been written, this bike has won the Italian championship in 1984, TT2, with rider Fabio Barchitta, this bike was made from the sign. Piero Giannesin, with the illustrious collaboration engineer Martini, great coach who has developed many BIMOTA.
The particular thing of this bike, and 'that the rear shock is mounted straight and not tilted like the Ducati TT2, eliminating the annoying chatter, which occurred on the factory Ducati.
The first who discovered this solution was Domenico Moretti, Piero Giannesin then, they realized that the rear shock is mounted straight, and I can assure you that the motion of Moretti, and 'was the starting point of the frames ducati 851, if you want I can tell the real story.
I hope that you understand, what I'm saying.

Sorry for my English.


Hi Carlo - Happy New Year!

You're English is fine - much better than my Italian :lol: I'd love to hear the "real story"

_________________
Steve Munro
loudbike
http://www.loudbike.com
http://www.vintagemotorcyclesforsale.com


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 Post subject: Re: DUCATI GPM
PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 11:11 am 
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Carlo,

Magnifico!

Your English is perfect, the story is fascinating and we would love to know more whenever it's possible for you.

Grazie mille,

Fran


Last edited by fmcd92 on Sat Jan 08, 2011 2:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: DUCATI GPM
PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 12:33 pm 
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Hi, guys,
this is what I know (sorry for my english..):

I spoke a lot with Rino Caracchi about TT2's history.
He told me that in 1982, the Engineer Taglioni commissioned Verlicchi 20 frames , which were assembled in the workshop of the NCR because , at the time, Ducati wasn't going to do racing bike but only road bike.
The first 20 frames and the engine case, haven't serial number because they were obtained from the assembly of PANTHA DUCATI 600 then relieved, and deliverables

In 1983, the Ducati has done new production of 25 bikes TT2, with 16-inch front wheel.
The new production was given the serial number of the frames, with Ducati's invoice, there was mounting the engine Ducati and they have been referred (italian "moto clienti") customers bike.
This has to do with the TT2 history.

In 1983, the frame builder of Livorno (city of Italy in Tuscany)Domenico Moretti designed a chassis with the rear shock, removing the annoyng problem of chattering , wich manifested itself on the official Ducati TT2.

In 1983, Becchetti Ugo, Ferdinando De Cecco won with a frame Moretti.
At the end of the bike championchip, the Becchetti's bike has been tested in the Mugello by the great Walter Villa, always surprise by the chassis frame of the Ducati TT2Moretti.
Then, the Ducati asked to Ugo Bechetti if he could bring the bike in the Ducati factory: from there came the basis for Ducati 851 superbike.
You can see the likeness of my frame, with a frame Moretti Ducati 851. It was released in 1982 with all the features of a modern motorcycle ( I think).

I know Rino Caracchi very well, and Ugo Becchetti married my sister, so I know him better.
;) and when I bought my TT2 Sakamoto , I went along Ugo Becchetti to Bologna from Caracchi because we wanted to see my bike to him,and on this occasion, he told me the story and I believe him.

Thank you for your attention.

Carlo Leoncini


Attachments:
File comment: you can see Moretti who holds the frame that it will the league in 1983 and on the left the pilot Ugo Becchetti. The engine block of the motion was made by NCR.
Immagine.jpg
Immagine.jpg [ 263.9 KiB | Viewed 958 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: DUCATI GPM
PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 2:11 pm 
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DUCATI moretti 1982


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File comment: This is Moretti frame 1982. It's is similar to the modern Ducati
Immagine 090.jpg
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 Post subject: Re: DUCATI GPM
PostPosted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 1:11 pm 
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Location: Vermont, USA
Hi Carlo,
Just for comparison I took a couple shots of the '88 Adamo 851 I'm rebuilding. A lot of similarities.
Bill


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851disassembly 221.jpg
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851disassembly 219.jpg
851disassembly 219.jpg [ 76.45 KiB | Viewed 947 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: DUCATI GPM
PostPosted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 2:33 pm 
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Ciao Carlo,

What extra weight is the Moretti frame from the Verlicchi TT2? Can you say this weight is more in the rear?

With the linkage shown was the Double System shock still used? It should be possible to adjust ride height with a linkage suspension and a straight-rate spring would be better, correct?

Fascinating story with information we would never learn without this posting, Thank you! (more??)

Bill:

Is that lovely Adamo 851 mostly production-based and in the 370 lbs range DW? Will it be track ridden at some future time? A vid would be well worth planning for. Any actual rebound with those M1-Rs? I had to do 20w on rebound side which had two consequences, predictably.

Thanks heaps, both of you!

Fran


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 Post subject: Re: DUCATI GPM
PostPosted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 2:41 pm 
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Tried it and it works :

Marzocchi M1R Specifications

The following information supplied by Marzocchi in Feb.1986
and should be use for the 1989-90 Ducati 851 and SP versions,
Bimota DB1, S, SR series motorcycles.

This what I have found and what actually worked well for me (170 lbs)
And my son (120lbs).

GENERAL INFORMATION
The right fork assembly controls rebound (knob at the bottom of the fork slider) and the left fork assembly controls compression (no control anywhere).

Different levels and different viscosities of oils can be used to suit conditions. This is the beauty of these forks. Adjustments on each leg will not effect the other. Only fork springs and oil levels need to remain the same. Oil viscosity can be varied on each leg if you are competent enough to judge and appreciate the differences.

Fork Springs
There seems to be misleading and inconsistant information on the springs for the M1R forks. There are 2 springs, one in each leg. Some parts breakdowns will only show one and even Marzocchi literature is misleading when it actually shows NO SPRING in the crossection of left fork tube. Trust me.......there ARE 2 springs.

Marzocchi has different fork springs for the 42mm M1R forks which are:
Light Spring-------30 inch/lbs---------Part # 18.0071
Medium Spring ---40 inch/lbs---------Part # 18.0072 (standard)
Heavy Spring-----50 inch/lbs---------Part # 18.0073 (standard)

Progressive Suspension has springs (Part # PS 1130). They work extremely well especially with the adjustable preload caps (no Part #) on pg. 7 of the Pro Italia, June 1994 catalog. These adjustable caps were made for the Ducati 750 Paso and the 907 Paso.


FORK TUBES
It appears that the right and left fork tubes are of different lengths as supplied on a motorcycle and there are different lengths available.

YOKES (Triple Trees)
Different offsets and stem diameters are available.

OIL LEVEL(s)
The oil level is measured from the top of the open fork tube (cap off) to the centerline (repeat: centerline) top of the oil inside the upper fork tube. Take the springs(s) out and compress the fork completely to
Make this measurement.

38mm tube models should have 160 mm of air distance from top
42mm tube models take 170mm of air distance from top.

I recommend you buy one of the many availble fork oil measuring tools that look like a very large medial syringe with a long tube where the needle would be. On that tube there is a sliding disc that will rest on the top of your fork tube. The idea is to put a large amount of oil in the tube and then(with the tool) you suck off the unwanted oil and then repeat for the second tube. Simple and very accurate.....IFthe forks are vertical.

Use 5 weight oil for temps 10-15 centigrade (30-50 F)
Use 10 weight oil for temps above 15c (50 degrees F )
Adjust the oil viscosity to suit temps. There is 2 wt oil for colder temps and you can "play" with mixtures as you desire and learn.

The right fork leg with the knob down on the bottom is for REBOUND and has 4 (yes only 4) positions. You can rotate past 4 and will go back to 1 after you get the oil and spring(s) installed you should be able to tell the 1 position from the 4 position.There are different springs in the REBOUND adjustment (knob area) to adjust the range of rebound dampening rates (not to mention you can play with oils).

Light rebound: Spring # 71.0050
Medium rebound: Spring # 71.0051 (nromal)
Heavy rebound: Spring # 71.0052 (normal)

Use no air in these forks. From time to time you will need to bleed off unwanted air that gets trapped in the forks.

MODIFICATIONS TO FORK LEGS (Tubes)

In March 1986 a Marzocchi service bulletin recommended:

Left tube: drilling a 6mm hole, 65mm from the bottom of the fork tube
Right tube: drilling a 6mm hole, 35mm from the bottom of the fork tube.

BE CERTAIN TO "DEBUR" THIS HOLE AND SMOOTH EDGES OF
DRILLED HOLE AS BEST POSSIBLE.

ricambi.spa@marzocchi.it has the Marzocchi service manual & parts book (one book) and spares.


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 Post subject: Re: DUCATI GPM
PostPosted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 2:43 pm 
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But on good advice from John Baines (Baines Racing Silverstone) completely did away with rebound valve : took it off and put a blank in its place


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 Post subject: Re: DUCATI GPM
PostPosted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 2:51 pm 
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loudbike wrote:
Sorry for my English.


Hi Carlo - Happy New Year!

You're English is fine - much better than my Italian :lol: I'd love to hear the "real story"[/quote]

You see Carlo, it's OUR English that is sorry. You're is a contraction for "you are" so our Steve meant "Your" used as a possesive adjective. That was probably a test -- did we finally pass, Steve?

Why, you're quite welcome (if you just said what I THINK you said...)!!

Fran


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