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Resting in piece(s). Post details of your idle projects here
http://www.ducatittandf1.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=10984		 Page 2 of 3
Author:  luigi2 [ Sat Dec 13, 2014 11:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Resting in piece(s). Post details of your idle projects
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Browsing the forum on a lazy,rainy Sunday and found this topic so it was an excuse for going out to the shed to get photographic evidence of why I should really be, out in the shed getting on...
In the foreground is my Bevel "special" project (minus shock and chain) which I finally got on the road around 2012-13, six years after first acquiring the frame, then several more collecting bits and with an intense final couple bringing it together. It's been sitting idle pretty much since soon after that momentous occasion as after two subsequent engine strip-downs, the gearbox dogs then started leaving bits in the oil, and the electric leg sprag bearing decided to go AWOL in sympathy. At the time I just had to put it aside and "walk-away..!" (for my own peace of mind).
I did ignominiously truck it to our 2013 Ducati Owners Club national rally (NZ) and it won Best Special and Peoples Choice awards so there was some redemption.
To get some actual (relative) trouble-free riding in, I bought a late model 4v (my first experience of a late model Duke and whoa, they sure do go, compared to a Bevel). After taking it on the track a few times I decided that racing was where it was going to be at, but at a less frenetic (?) level in the Post Classic era classes. After much consideration, the Bevel narrowly missed being re-configured to suit, and the "late model 4v" made way for the TT2 project, the frame of which hangs suspended from the ceiling behind.
The TT2 motor is away being "operated" on by Glyn (Sports) who's doing his magic and hopes to be able to fill my Xmas stocking with all I really-want-for-Xmas really!
Once the TT2 is "on-track", I'm in just about the right head space now to finally sort the troublesome one, if I can still afford it!
Author:  athleticroman [ Sun Dec 14, 2014 7:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Resting in piece(s). Post details of your idle projects
luigi2 wrote:
I did ignominiously truck it to our 2013 Ducati Owners Club national rally (NZ) and it won Best Special and Peoples Choice awards so there was some redemption.

Nice looking project and good to see that it got the PC award!

Cheers,
Author:  Mad Max [ Fri Dec 19, 2014 11:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Resting in piece(s). Post details of your idle projects
Hello Luigi2, what do you know about the bevel frame? Is it an Vee Two Alchemy?
Author:  luigi2 [ Tue Dec 23, 2014 5:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Resting in piece(s). Post details of your idle projects
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Hi Max?

The frame is a circa 1972-74? 750GT item which I bought on an on-line auction here in NZ, from a dude who brought it and another "Grizzly" original frame over from USA, ... along with lots of other stuff (airplanes, cars etc). I think Grizzly had been commissioned to come up with a faster steering frame at some point? Neither bikes had ever been completed. This frame had already been cut and the steering head angle steepened and re-enforced with extra tubing in the "girder bridge" school of design. It came with a bottom-less fiberglass Imola tank (circa 1973) and seat unit and a strange kneeler type 3/4 fairing. My inspiration came from seeing Tony Hannigans "Vern" bike a few years back. Because the head had been steepened so much on this bike (sits on its wheels at about 21.5 deg) that it looked like it had hit a brick wall, I shortened everything to keep it looking as balanced as possible. The swingarm is a modified and shortened ZXR400 item. I cut and repositioned the rear frame tubes to allow for a cantilever mono shock and for re-routing the exhaust. The tank had 40mm taken out of its length, then moulded and reproduced as a cover for a home-made 15 litre aluminum tank and moved back as far as practicable, whereas the seat was widened at the rear to fit the rear frame and moved forward about the same. I was nervous about how it would actually handle being so steep at the steering head, but have found it actually not too bad. It's certainly easier to get around a bend and have never felt I was getting too far over and running out of road. Just give it some more brakes or lean angle, bit of counter-steer, whatever. Of course having those brakes, more ground clearance and suspension that actually works all helps. The wheelbase is now 100mm shorter than a standard Bevel! The only thing I would be nervous of, and haven't experienced yet is if its' head started shaking! It does have an Ohlins damper though.....

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Author:  pat slinn [ Tue Dec 23, 2014 1:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Resting in piece(s). Post details of your idle projects
Perhaps, a new year project. Turning this into a TT2 replica !!
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Author:  Dukerdr [ Tue Dec 23, 2014 3:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Resting in piece(s). Post details of your idle projects
Shouldn't be too hard for you Pat.

Interesting fairing...
.
Author:  ducadini [ Tue Dec 23, 2014 4:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Resting in piece(s). Post details of your idle projects
Hey Luigi, nice to see that others went where no sane man has driven before.
My modified darmah has a 23° headangle, rear swing 7 cm shorter and measures 1420 mm.
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A lot of shaking going on :-) but hope that settles when I fit a narrower 17" at the front.
Last year, due to changing work, I missed the 40th birthday of my '74 bike.
So in 2015 I try to slap some paint on, change some bearings in the engine, some honing and some valvework and work the chassis over to get some serious Alpine entertainment (and probably some Apennines and Dolomites too) until I get banned from all Italian roads (that exhaust is a bit loud and I don't want to ruin the performance, hahaha).
The '77 is completely in pieces and will have to be build up from scratch with some NOS pieces.
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File comment: Left me on the SS, last race ever on this bike.
Right the SS I later bought
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Earlier in 1982, at the Imola 24 hours race.
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Author:  Mad Max [ Mon Dec 29, 2014 9:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Resting in piece(s). Post details of your idle projects
luigi2 wrote:
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Hi Max?

The frame is a circa 1972-74? 750GT item which I bought on an on-line auction here in NZ, from a dude who brought it and another "Grizzly" original frame over from USA, ... along with lots of other stuff (airplanes, cars etc). I think Grizzly had been commissioned to come up with a faster steering frame at some point? Neither bikes had ever been completed. This frame had already been cut and the steering head angle steepened and re-enforced with extra tubing in the "girder bridge" school of design. It came with a bottom-less fiberglass Imola tank (circa 1973) and seat unit and a strange kneeler type 3/4 fairing. My inspiration came from seeing Tony Hannigans "Vern" bike a few years back. Because the head had been steepened so much on this bike (sits on its wheels at about 21.5 deg) that it looked like it had hit a brick wall, I shortened everything to keep it looking as balanced as possible. The swingarm is a modified and shortened ZXR400 item. I cut and repositioned the rear frame tubes to allow for a cantilever mono shock and for re-routing the exhaust. The tank had 40mm taken out of its length, then moulded and reproduced as a cover for a home-made 15 litre aluminum tank and moved back as far as practicable, whereas the seat was widened at the rear to fit the rear frame and moved forward about the same. I was nervous about how it would actually handle being so steep at the steering head, but have found it actually not too bad. It's certainly easier to get around a bend and have never felt I was getting too far over and running out of road. Just give it some more brakes or lean angle, bit of counter-steer, whatever. Of course having those brakes, more ground clearance and suspension that actually works all helps. The wheelbase is now 100mm shorter than a standard Bevel! The only thing I would be nervous of, and haven't experienced yet is if its' head started shaking! It does have an Ohlins damper though.....


OK, thanks. It is certainly very steep, I would have that steering damper on full all the time I think.
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I thought the frame looked similar to my Alchemy, it is quite steep but nothing like yours. The rear shock set up is to keep the overall length down an gives a rising rate via the linkage

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Author:  Eldert [ Thu Jan 01, 2015 4:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Resting in piece(s). Post details of your idle projects
Grizzly engineering in Sacramento CA did the steepening headangle mod for the bevelracer Dale Alexander build in the mid 80's

he did a write up about his build in the DIOC ( Ducati International Owners Club ) newsletters . these newsletters are posted on Steve Allen's Bevelheaven

newsletter 44,45 and 46

http://bevelheaven.com/dioc/dioc46.pdf page 13 goes about the frame mod

Eldert
Author:  ducadini [ Fri Jan 02, 2015 10:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Resting in piece(s). Post details of your idle projects
In "Das Motorrad" , German magazine from the eighties, they had an article about the different parameters used in motorcycle chassis design.
On a modified Darmah frame, they could modify head-angle, trail, and to get some degree of correction they could add weights to induce (or reduce) wobbles.
This was only to demonstrate that the straightline stability is a combination of factors.
Nowadays You don't have to search for books, order them by letter (remember that ;) ) and wait for weeks 'till delivery.
Just punch the correct caracters and articles flow over the screen.

Off "corse" when we go racing, things change dramatically and other needs have to be met.

ciao
ducadini
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