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 Post subject: Re: Palmer / Munro F1 Hot-Rod Build-Off
PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 7:03 pm 
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Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 10:54 pm
Posts: 425
Location: Brisbane
Thanks Gary,
64 and 90 is 814? (851/888 crank?)
66 and 90 is 840? (916/955/996 crank?)

Or are my maths wrong?

What squish clearance before and after the work being done now?
(if this is a race secret I understand)

Graeme


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 Post subject: Re: Palmer / Munro F1 Hot-Rod Build-Off
PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 7:39 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 4:37 pm
Posts: 360
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Location: Ottawa, Ontario, The Great White North
Chris' bore & stroke calculator http://www.ducatitech.com/info/bore.html

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 Post subject: Re: Palmer / Munro F1 Hot-Rod Build-Off
PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 7:47 pm 
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Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 10:54 pm
Posts: 425
Location: Brisbane
I'll see your bore and stroke calculator and raise you a capacity chart.

64 stroke still = 814 with 90 bore

http://www.bikeboy.org/duccapacities.html

Graeme


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 Post subject: Re: Palmer / Munro F1 Hot-Rod Build-Off
PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 7:47 am 
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Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2010 7:47 am
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Graeme,

Sorry, brain fade, it's a 66mm stroke not 64mm.

Palmer


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 Post subject: Re: Palmer / Munro F1 Hot-Rod Build-Off
PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 8:30 am 
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Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 10:54 pm
Posts: 425
Location: Brisbane
916 crank? or 803?

What is an 803 crank from, 800ss?

Thanks
Graeme


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 Post subject: Re: Palmer / Munro F1 Hot-Rod Build-Off
PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 4:13 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2010 7:47 am
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Graeme,

The motor is an 803 from a 2005 or 2006 monster. Motor has F1 heads and has been converted to 5-speed with dry clutch for better gear spacing. The 6-speed doesn't work out very well for racing because of the gear spacing.

Palmer


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 Post subject: Re: Palmer / Munro F1 Hot-Rod Build-Off
PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2011 2:32 am 
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Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 10:54 pm
Posts: 425
Location: Brisbane
Thank you Gary and Steve,
This subject has given me a wake up as my replica has 12.3 to 1 and I've been running it on 98 pump fuel without any problems (yet) But I do confess to sometimes being slack and adding 95 when I've been low in the country. I have also been swapping fuel from bike to bike if the one I want to ride is low.
I won't be doing that again with the TT2, the others have lower compression so it should be ok for them.
I am amased at the damage caused to Steves motor.
I believe that octain booster is only good for low octane fuels but the higher the octane level is in the start fuel the less it has the ability to increase the level.
Is there any recomended booster that isn't ju ju juice?
In Brisbane we are lucky to have fairly good 98, but there is no gaurantee the fuel in fresh, especially in the country.
Graeme


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 Post subject: Re: Palmer / Munro F1 Hot-Rod Build-Off
PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2011 12:01 pm 
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Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2010 5:28 am
Posts: 52
Images: 85
Location: Amsterdam
Hello palmer,

Can you give me any information about difference between 5 and 6 speed gearbox?
I read somewhere that you lost time on track with the 6 speed?
What is not right with gear spacings from the 6 speed?
We can use a dry clutch with the 5 speed, is this also possible with 6 speed?

I copied this information on Brad's website: http://www.bikeboy.org/ducgearing.html

5 Speed SPREAD : 2.59 6 Speed SPREAD: 2.67
1st 40 16 2.50 32 13 2.46
2nd 36 21 1.71 30 18 1.67
3rd 32 24 1.33 28 21 1.33
4th 29 27 1.07 26 23 1.13
5th 28 29 0.97 22 22 1.00
6th 24 26 0.92

We are thinking of using the six speed for our bike.
We have a friend how can make gears and it would be possible to change them into close ratio.
But is this gearbox strong enough for about 90/100 php( whishfull thinking on my part)?
Thanks for your time and regards Remco

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 Post subject: Re: Palmer / Munro F1 Hot-Rod Build-Off
PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2011 1:21 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2010 7:47 am
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Hi Remco,
The 6-speed gear box from the small case 800 ratios and F1 ratios are:
800 6-speed F1 750 5-speed
1st 32/13 2.46 40/16 2.50
2nd 30/18 1.66 36/21 1.71
3rd 28/21 1.33 32/24 1.34
4th 26/23 1.13 29/27 1.07
5th 22/22 1.00 28/29 0.96
6th 24/26 0.92
What I found on the race track was that the first three gears are about the same, but with the 6-speed the gear spread got closer as you get in the higher gears. This didn't allow me to use the torque of the motor and had to shift more in higher gears. It ended up costing me 2 seconds a lap at Blckhawk Farms race track. (which is a pretty tight track). At Road America I didn't notice any disadvantages but that's a long fast race track and I think with the long uphill front straight the 6-speed was probable better. A true close ratio transmission from say a 4 valve 748 would probably be nice but won't fit into a small case motor.

This is of for late model small case motors. I was not able to put the 6-speed in early cases without a lot of work. To make a late model small case conversion to a dry clutch you do need to redirect the oil flow within the motor. The transmissions of the late model motors are of very good quality and can handle the high horsepower as can the cases. Early small case motors are somewhat limited to cracking at the half shaft and transmission gear quality.

What will you motor combination be? Small cases or big, new or old style? How big of displacement?

Palmer


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 Post subject: Re: Palmer / Munro F1 Hot-Rod Build-Off
PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 9:31 am 
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Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2010 5:28 am
Posts: 52
Images: 85
Location: Amsterdam
Hallo Palmer,

We are working on building a pantah framed racebike.
We have a 350 allazzura engine, a 650 engine, a 750 paso engine and a 900 bitza.
We would like a smallcase engine with a long stroke and 800-900 displacement with 6 speed and dry clutch.(If i get my way we will take part at the Spa classic race, this a high speed track with very long straight and high speed corners) And for the future a big case engine with 985 displacement, pantah head on stading cilinder, would be nice.

Sofar we have opened up the 650 and 750 and taken out the 900 cases to spot the difference in oil systems. We think that you are refering too crank oil flow in the clutch cover?
What kind of work are you refering too for the 6 speed in older smallcases?
We spotted that the oil system is in one side of the crankcases. We are making a schedule drawing with the different engine cases we have for the oil systems.

We also noticed a lot of difference in pivot positions and width of the cases at the swingarm.
Pantah cases are about 150 mm width, the paso and allazzura are 140mm width and the 900 is 170mm width. Swingarm axel are 28, 17 and 20 mm. On the paso and allazzura cases the pivot position is lower than the gearboxshaft, on the pantah and 900 the are at the same height. The original swingarm from the pantah is 155 width and has 28 mm axel. So we need to modify some thing. We are not so happy with the orignal shims system to get free off play swingarm bearing. We are looking at the Guzzi system where you have adjusters that go into the bearings at the rear of the gearbox or frame/swingarm, but are not sure this will fit into all the cases.

Remco

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