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 Post subject: Re: Tribute to the Pantah F2 No. 8
PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2015 7:56 pm 
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Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2011 3:38 pm
Posts: 419
Nice work Mike, great upgrades!
paul


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 Post subject: Re: Tribute to the Pantah F2 No. 8
PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2015 11:37 am 
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Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2010 12:20 pm
Posts: 1186
Location: Vermont, USA
Hi Mike,
I love this thread, that is such a beautiful bike. I can't tell from the photos - have you scrubbed in those Pirelli's yet? Tell me about the calipers. Is the rear now an original old Lockheed? Are the fronts new AP's? Are all three the same size?
Bill


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 Post subject: Re: Tribute to the Pantah F2 No. 8
PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2015 10:38 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2010 11:23 am
Posts: 1102
You have it right Bill. Fronts are the new versions that work on either side, and the rear is a one-directional original. I had trouble finding good used vintage ones in 2011 when I was building the bike, so I went with the new versions to get things done. Pat thinks the rear caliper was different from the fronts, so I found a good vintage one-direction Lockheed version later (it had a Grimeca in 2011) and rebuilt it. I also went to a "correct" vintage AP Lockheed front master cylinder a while back, and I think it is too powerful---no feel whatsoever; the 14mm Brembo was fine, but the 16mm Lockheed is wooden. This brings to mind the chart you have posted about that issue. And, something is wrong about the front pad composition. I have taken it down the road more that once, and stopping is "entertaining" right now. So, that is something else to work on in the spring. I've got to find some pads more compatible with the modified Yamaha RDs rotors on it, or go back to the incorrect Brembo M/C. I only posted these photos because is seems we need more to read during the winter months. MikeV


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 Post subject: Re: Tribute to the Pantah F2 No. 8
PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2015 5:20 am 
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Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2013 4:36 pm
Posts: 176
what was the reason behind moving the shocks to be more vertical?


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 Post subject: Re: Tribute to the Pantah F2 No. 8
PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2015 4:05 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2010 11:23 am
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I did it because the original was like that. It was MAXTON suspension, in the UK, who made that decision and modified the frame, according to Pat. More travel was needed at the IOM I think was the reason. It certainly was "old school"; like a Norton Manx and many earlier bikes.


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 Post subject: Re: Tribute to the Pantah F2 No. 8
PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2015 5:23 pm 
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Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2010 12:20 pm
Posts: 1186
Location: Vermont, USA
Hi Mike,
I figure a 16mm master should be just about perfect for two AP 2696 calipers. What are your rotors made from? If they are any kind of metal, Ferodo FDB342P Platinum organic compound pads should work great, unless you're going to race it really hard, then go with the CP1 compound. Sorry for asking, but is there any chance the existing pads got contaminated somehow from something on the rotors? Do you know the history of those pads?
Bill


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 Post subject: Re: Tribute to the Pantah F2 No. 8
PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2015 12:20 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2010 11:23 am
Posts: 1102
The rotors are Yamaha RD 350-400, turned to the correct 260mm diameter, surface-ground to make them smooth and a bit thinner, and machined to look like the correct Lockheed rotors. I was told they are "steel". I am pretty sure I cleaned them more than once before the calipers were installed. The first pads came with the calipers - new - AP. They really seemed OK with the Brembo master, and the lack of feel came when I installed the Lockheed master. The second set of pads, Ferodos or Brembos (packages hidden in a box now), were also new. I cleaned the first set of pads, but that was no help, and then tried the second set, and they were worse. Right now it is too cold, and wet, and slick for me to even contemplate trying the driveway.

Bill, I am not sure what the future of this bike will be. I built it, simply, to do that (to learn and re-learn some things), and right now it seems to be just a static display. The bike show (called THE EVENT) was OK, but I got bored by the afternoon. Not as many Italian bikes as I expected. I cannot contemplate putting it in a track day with so many modern, really-fast going and stopping, bikes surrounding it; I am still a moving chicane on many days on the TT900SS. Geoff Baker's F1 is usually the only vintage bike out there, and he is in the go-fast gang.

MikeV


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 Post subject: Re: Tribute to the Pantah F2 No. 8
PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2015 3:01 pm 
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Joined: Wed Nov 17, 2010 5:43 pm
Posts: 59
Images: 1
From my few years of RD ownership, I'm pretty sure the rotors are stainless.


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 Post subject: Re: Tribute to the Pantah F2 No. 8
PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2015 3:49 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2010 11:23 am
Posts: 1102
There you are Geoff! Thanks, maybe it needs some sintered pads, or something along that line. I'll go out to the garage and get a magnet. MikeV

Here is what happens when you have CI discs, and it rains on the last track day you go to, and all the way home:

Attachment:
IMG_0577.JPG
IMG_0577.JPG [ 3.6 MiB | Viewed 622 times ]


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 Post subject: Re: Tribute to the Pantah F2 No. 8
PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 12:36 pm 
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Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2010 12:20 pm
Posts: 1186
Location: Vermont, USA
Mike, this is puzzling. I hope I'm not bugging you about this and I don't mean to insult you by asking questions that I'm sure you are well aware of. I just like to get brakes working really good, which is probably why my lap times are so pathetic. I'm also curious about getting those AP calipers working good because I've got one on order for the Norton Commando I'm currently rebuilding. I've been intending to order a set of those Ferodo Platinum pads for it, so I did last night from Michael at Vintage Brake and ran the RD rotor material question by him. He says they are stainless. He never talks brakes without mentioning proper bedding in of new pads and the importance of clean rotors, as I'm sure you know. At this point I'm wondering if the problem may be the working of the Lockheed master. I've triple checked his "feel" chart and a 16mm or 5/8" is just right for two AP's. Is it a new AP number CP2215-90? Or used? If used, do you know its history or internal condition?

I agree with your show comment, I'm good for about 10 minutes, especially if you suspect a number of the bikes there couldn't ride their way out of a paper bag. I think the best cure would be getting it to work as good as it looks. Think track day slow group. It is so much more satisfying while you're sitting in your garage by yourself just looking at it, if you can think to yourself - damn, that thing works good!
Bill
http://www.apracing.com/product_details/motorcycle/master_cylinders/classic_front_master_cylinder/cp2215-90.aspx


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