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Building a Coincidence
http://www.ducatittandf1.com/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=60		 Page 4 of 5
Author:  B182 [ Sun Jan 16, 2011 8:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Building a Coincidence
I'm working on my Pantah racer right now as well. Looking forward to hearing more about the modifications you are doing.

Do you have any more information about that NCR Pantah you showed on the first page? That is the first picture I've seen of their frame.
Author:  littlemono82 [ Mon Jan 17, 2011 4:01 pm ]
Post subject:  NCR pantah Pictures
Hoi B182,

There are no pictures on the first page from NCR.
The first picture is from the factory pantah racers.
The second is from Tony Rutter on a Sports Motorcyles Pantah in 1981, this frame was a modified standaard pantah, most work done by Ron Williams from Maxton Enginering.
The third is the same bike this time ridden by Goerge Fogarty.
There is a bloke called le tige, on this forum how claims he has some drawings from the Sports Motorcyles Pantah, but when i asked him there was no response, see this topic: Rutter's Pantah: Moving Shocks???

We don't have any drawings from the NCR frame.
We have no info from any other private or factory racebike.
But we do have a standaard pantah frame, which we measured.
We also have this homemade toy, from which we know all the technical details and how it feels when you ride it hard. On this info which we based our pantah replica:

The biggest difference with our Supertwin for the Pantah TT bike will be that it will have 18" wheels, a pantah engine with front exhaust at vertical cilinder and an "old" style frontfork from Marzocchi.
The wheels will be "old" style dymag, marvic or campagnolo's.

Attachments:
File comment: The factory pantah from 1980/1981
191981600TT2primaversionedx_1024.jpg
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File comment: Privateer pantah endurance racebike at the Bol d'Or with NCR Frame
Ducati Endurance.jpg
Ducati Endurance.jpg [ 96.99 KiB | Viewed 1759 times ]
File comment: Cagiva Allazzura racebike with NCR frame raced by Leoni/adamo
image_1_366_1193083517.jpg
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File comment: GPM-NCR endurance racebike with NCR Frame from italy
gpm ncr ducati_03.jpg
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File comment: Cagiva allazzura with NCR frame from Leoni/Adamo
pantah_div_101.jpg
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File comment: Replica NCR frame sold by Old Racing Spare Parts
ncr frame.jpg
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File comment: Replica NCR frame sold by Red Fox Import
64160043-pantah-ducati-ncr.jpg
64160043-pantah-ducati-ncr.jpg [ 70.51 KiB | Viewed 1759 times ]
File comment: On this info which we based our pantah replica
Pantah frame.jpg
Pantah frame.jpg [ 140.92 KiB | Viewed 1759 times ]
Author:  ducttf1 [ Mon Jan 17, 2011 8:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Building a Coincidence
Hi Guys, the ORSP frame looks like a DM frame. They are a frame builder in Bologna. I will post a picture of the NCR catalog that shows the frame they sold. I was lucky enough to aquire one of them a few months ago. They are super light. Regards, Lou Saif

Attachments:
NCR_prospekt_8.jpg
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Author:  B182 [ Mon Jan 17, 2011 10:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Building a Coincidence
Thanks for all that information. I've seen more info about racing Pantahs in this thread than I've been able to find total elsewhere. This is my Pantah as I ran it last season. It had sat for about 10 years when I bought it, and as you can imagine, spent most of the year chasing little issues.

Attachment:
DSCN0943.jpg
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This winter/spring I'm working on a complete rebuild with plans to have it complete by the Barber Vintage weekend in October. In the meantime, I'll be campaigning a stock Pantah as racing season starts in 2 months.
Author:  MarcFX [ Tue Jan 18, 2011 12:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Building a Coincidence
Nice bit of DIY, love the top rails supporting jig. Interesting post keep the pcitures coming.
Author:  littlemono82 [ Tue Jan 18, 2011 7:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Building a Coincidence
ducttf1 wrote:
Hi Guys, the ORSP frame looks like a DM frame. They are a frame builder in Bologna. I will post a picture of the NCR catalog that shows the frame they sold. I was lucky enough to aquire one of them a few months ago. They are super light. Regards, Lou Saif


Hoi Lou,

If you look closely to the pictures of the ORSP frame and the NCR Catalog, you can spot some small differences. The back of the frames is different and there are a lot more brackets for electrical components on the ORSP frame. So these must be made by two framebuilders.

Groet Remco
Author:  littlemono82 [ Tue Jan 18, 2011 7:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Building a Coincidence
B182 wrote:
I'm working on my Pantah racer right now as well. Looking forward to hearing more about the modifications you are doing.


We aren't doing any moifications on our frame(lets cross our fingers everything works at ones), we started from the drawingbord with building a brand new frame. This frame is based upon our expierience it has a modern headstockangle, short trail, shorter wheelbase and we will use tripple clamps with variable offset so we can use both 17" and 18" wheels. But our goal is to use 18" wheels, as that is in the rulebook of most of our raceclasses.

Does anybody want to share there experience of 18" racetires makes like Avon, Dunlop and Bridgestone?

Groet Remco
Author:  ducttf1 [ Tue Jan 18, 2011 4:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Building a Coincidence
Hi, yes they are two frame builders. I think the NCR frames are Verlicchi. The big difference in the two frames is that the DM frame can use mono or twin shock configurations as it has both mounts. The NCR frame is only a monoshock. I suspect the NCR frame to be much lighter. My friend will be bringing his DM frame to my shop soon and I will take pictures of both side by side. I will try to let everyone know the differences as far as weight and steering head angle if you are interested. Regards, Lou Saif
Author:  littlemono82 [ Tue Jan 18, 2011 5:28 pm ]
Post subject:  NCR fursus DM frame
Hoi Lou,

Yes i will be waiting full of expectations of your info about these frames :o
What does DM stand for?
Please take as many pictures as you can, the more the merrier :mrgreen:
Will share my data if you are interrested?

Groet Remco
Author:  ducttf1 [ Tue Jan 18, 2011 6:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Building a Coincidence
Hi Groet, I was in Italy a few years ago and went to the DM shop. I think the owners name was Diego so it might be his initials. I forgot to mention another interesting thing, when I was there they had built an all aluminum TT1/2 frame! I think they said it weighed in at 7 pounds! It had what appeared to be a 'shot peened' finish on the tubes. I was nervous about the strengh but they said they were using one with a modern 900 ss motor and it was fine. I will try to dig up the pictures and post them. Give me a few days I don't remember where they are. Regards, Lou
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